Debating the Role of Demagoguery in the Holocaust

The following debate originally took place upon my Facebook wall, after my friend, and fellow Autistic self-advocate, Jason Ross, posted artwork being shared by the page, “The Free Thought Project“…

Jason R.:

Jason R.: That’s how America does things and why Trump got a platform in this election 😐

Rayn: Trump AND Clinton, actually…

As I wrote in my article, “Democracy and Demagoguery Make a Perfect Team!”:

“DemoCrackPot bigotry is different than the RepubliConArtist variety, because… ???

‘The’ Russians! ‘The’ Mexicans! ‘The’ Muslims! Oh, my! Obviously, these ‘problems’ require massively tyrannical government ‘solutions’! 😉

Democracy and Demagoguery … What a team!”

http://acidrayn.com/2016/10/22/democracy-and-demagoguery-make-a-perfect-team/

Katherine C.: It actually didn’t start that way. It started with a monarchy that imposed a useless four year war, and a very tired, very broke people who had no idea what would happen or what was happening half the time. The Nazi party largely played down the anti-Semitic sentiments until they already well in power and after Hindenburg died. Hindenburg was the president and the only one with the ability to fire Hitler. They played nice till after that.

Katherine C.: And from the getgo they intimidated the hell out of people. And not just people, but their families. You’re about to have a kid. If u by merely speaking out against government would land u in prison and ur family killed, what would u do? And this was applied to all Germans, not just the Jews. It’s easy to blame people but u gotta go a little deeper to understand that they were just regular human beings, and the Nazis were lightning fast and brutal.

Rayn: Jason actually posted this graphic here to my wall  this time, Katherine – although I once posted it to my wall, a while back. And, the meme is a reference to the treatment of Jewish people by the Nazi party, under Hitler. It is an attempt to remind its audience that the Holocaust didn’t start with gas chambers, but with Hitler’s scapegoating minority groups (most especially Jewish people) for the complex problems Germany was facing. Germany’s problems, themselves, absolutely began even before Hitler’s rise to power, but that is of little consequence to the theme of the meme, which is to reveal the basic dynamics of demagoguery as a route to mass murder. Historically, demagogues typically seize upon any number of serious problems their nation is facing to begin their tyrannical, and often murderous, rises to power.

Also, from almost the moment Hitler became Chancellor of the National Socialist Workers Party, in January of 1933, he began to enact antisemitism as a matter of State policy – transforming the country into “Nazi Germany” (or the “Greater German Reich”). From the Reichstag fire in February of 1933, to the “Enabling Act” of March 1933, the groundwork was laid for the enacting of Germany’s April 1933 racial hygiene laws, and at the same time, the laws against non-Aryan civil service. These major foundations were established a full year before Hindenburg died. Feel free to “go a little deeper,” yourself, and read about the sequence of events here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht#Early_Nazi_persecutions

You can claim the German citizens to be “very broke people who had no idea what would happen or what was happening half the time,” and sympathize with them as “intimidated” victims of the State, but you should also understand that Hitler actually committed none of the State’s 12 million murders himself, and his cabinet and officers did very little of the killing, either. It was an entire country of military draftees, mostly men, who were “following orders” that did so. And, they ALL share in the responsibility of the crimes of the State. You can rest assured that during the Nuremberg Trials against the crimes of the Nazi party, all attempts of soldiers, and even Nazi party officers, to shift blame onto their superiors, and onto Hitler, were fully rejected by the entire international community as a legitimate form of defense. Then, truly recognize that these soldiers, whether “intimidated” or otherwise, actually had superior numbers, and being armed by the State, itself, could have easily risen up against the Nazi party, but instead, remained either nationalistic, and apathetic to detractors and outsiders, in their subservience to a “greater cause.” In taking this role, those who participated in the crimes of the State felt no morally responsible for their actions, enabling them to shift the blame onto those giving the criminal orders.

Herman Goering at the Nuremberg Trials, famously said, “Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

To answer your question, “if u by merely speaking out against government would land u in prison and ur family killed, what would u do?” Man… you really don’t know or understand me, whatsoever. You want to get me put on a list, or something? LOL! 🙂 Fine. I have no fear of it, and will reveal my plan. Here’s what I would do. I would write down all of my protests against government, then publish them on a website (hint, hint… 😉 ), or I’d post them, in print, and distribute them among my friends, and any interested parties, if the first option wasn’t available. I’d also speak about my grievances often, to any who bring up the topic. Then, I’d sit in my home, armed and ready, just waiting for the jack-booted criminals to dare come falsely imprison me, or take my family hostage. BOOM! Instant martyrdom! My family and I get to go to our eternal home with our souls still intact, completely secure in the knowledge that we were not captured by savages, who would likely torture us, abuse us, brainwash my child, or force us all to commit egregious crimes against other human beings, to “save” what would become very miserable “lives.” The soul, and the peaceful free-will that defines it, is priceless, while the body is just its vessel. My soul, the souls of my family members, and all souls, in general, are bound by this equation. Best believe that I would not give up my free-will guided soul for a body that I no longer even have sovereignty over. That is not “life,” nor is that “living,” so I would save literally NOTHING, and lose almost EVERYTHING, in making such a deal! It’s a slave’s bargain, and I would never consent to such a pathetic arrangement! My huband can attest to this truth about me, easily, and I can even tag some a family member, and a friend to verify my long-standing views, if you’re not convinced. Previously, in March of 2009, when I was abducted and falsely imprisoned by State criminals for possessing a non-toxic plant, I immediately began a hunger strike, with no plans to desist. My family manged to have me released just three days later, but if I had remained in a cage, I would have been perfectly content to die, knowing I was innocent, and that my kidnappers were merely criminals, with no real power over me. I know my Father, and where I came from, so death has no sting, for me.

I know. I know. Not everyone has my convictions to resist Nazi-like tyranny. So, take the example of Denmark, and learn the intriguing lesson of how they cleverly fought Nazi terror…

Disobedience and Super-Obedience are Two Major Weapons in the War Against Injustice:
http://acidrayn.com/2016/08/10/disobedience-and-super-obedience-are-two-major-weapons-in-the-war-against-injustice/

The Germans could have done this sort of thing, even, too… But, they chose intolerance and apathy towards minority groups, along with obedience to the State, as the ultimate Authority.

Katherine: The Reichstag fire suspended civil liberties. They were fighting against “Marxist terrorists”. Didn’t have anything to do with the Jews just yet. During the few years he actually did not go after Jews specifically. He went after the KPD and SPD–communists and socialists. It was known that the party was anti-Semitic, but even at that point in Germany, being anti-Semitic was frowned upon. The civil service laws were not aimed at the Jews, they were aimed at Communists (KPD), Socialists (SPD) and Catholic Center Party supporters. When mass arrests began they were for political prisoners. The first concentration camps (not to be confused with the more known extinction camps), were for political prisoners, not Jews. And as for the hygiene laws ur talking about, it was called “Volksgemeinschaft” and actually excluded a lot of people, not just Jews…gypsies, criminals (cuz back then they thought criminality was genetic), prostitutes. But it wasn’t law at the beginning. Hindenburg did go along with these things, but the laws weren’t outright against Jews. And going “a little deeper”, look up Volkisch ideology. It’s from Germany in the 1800s. This idea of “blood and soil”. Because Germans had always been all over the place in various disunited states, they relied on blood as a German identity. And the Nazis tried lots of propaganda to get people away from Jews, like not shopping at Jewish stores and stuff. And let’s not forget that programs like the Hitler Youth for boys and the BDM for girls used kids to spy on their parents. What I’m trying to say is that the Nazis courted the people in the beginning. The speed at which they moved even in the first three months was unbelievable. The German people didn’t see it coming. Now, with Trump, we have no excuse. He’s laid out pretty clearly where he stands. And the people in Germany that committed these crimes, let’s remember what happened after World War One. Disarmament was a disaster. Weapons were rampant. It was extremely easy to get weapons. There were a large group of soldiers who didn’t wanna leave the army and even after the war was over they used these weapons to put down rebellions. Look up Freikorps. These were the beginnings of the Nazis. Add to that a bunch of unemployed young men with nothing to do and guns widely available, and everyone pissed at the unfair Versailles Treaty. What do u think is gonna happen? People do desperate things when out in desperate situations. And when ur isolated and violence becomes the norm, and ur family is threatened if u don’t do ur job…

Rayn: Katherine, you wrote:

“The Reichstag fire suspended civil liberties. They were fighting against ‘Marxist terrorists’. Didn’t have anything to do with the Jews just yet. During the few years he actually did not go after Jews specifically….. The civil service laws were not aimed at the Jews, they were aimed at Communists (KPD), Socialists (SPD) and Catholic Center Party supporters… And as for the hygiene laws ur talking about, it was called “Volksgemeinschaft” and actually excluded a lot of people, not just Jews…gypsies, criminals (cuz back then they thought criminality was genetic), prostitutes.”

Yet, I already wrote above that this meme is “an attempt to remind its audience that the Holocaust didn’t start with gas chambers, but with Hitler’s scapegoating minority groups (most especially Jewish people) for the complex problems Germany was facing. Germany’s problems, themselves, absolutely began even before Hitler’s rise to power, but that is of little consequence to the theme of the meme, which is to reveal the basic dynamics of demagoguery as a route to mass murder. Historically, demagogues typically seize upon any number of serious problems their nation is facing to begin their tyrannical, and often murderous, rises to power.”

I also wrote, “from almost the moment Hitler became Chancellor of the National Socialist Workers Party, in January of 1933, he began to enact antisemitism as a matter of State policy – transforming the country into ‘Nazi Germany’ (or the “Greater German Reich”). From the Reichstag fire in February of 1933, to the ‘Enabling Act’ of March 1933, the groundwork was laid for the enacting of Germany’s April 1933 racial hygiene laws, and at the same time, the laws against non-Aryan civil service. These major foundations were established a full year before Hindenburg died. Feel free to ‘go a little deeper,’ yourself, and read about the sequence of events here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht#Early_Nazi_persecutions”

As you can see, I specifically wrote that the Reichstag fire and the Enabling act, both implemented a mere two months after Hitler became Chancellor of Germany “LAID THE GROUNDWORK” for the racial hygiene laws and the laws against non-Aryan civil service that came just a month later, and that these latter events were the “major foundations” of the Holocaust… The Wiki article I cited shows these SAME EXACT THINGS I MENTIONED to be the foundations for the Holocaust. I never said, nor implied, that Jewish people were the only target of the Nazis, and clearly wrote that Hitler was “scapegoating minority groups (most especially Jewish people).” Therefore, your efforts to mention other targeted minority groups, as though it discredits my words, actually only SOLIDIFIES my points about demagoguery and scapegoating, perfectly!

The Wiki article states, “Beginning in 1933, the German government enacted a series of anti-Jewish laws restricting the rights of German Jews to earn a living, to enjoy full citizenship and to gain education, including the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service of 7 April 1933, which forbade Jews to work in the civil service.”

The Wiki article also states, “From [the Enabling Act’s] inception, Hitler’s régime moved quickly to introduce anti-Jewish policies.” The phrase “anti-Jewish policies” is underlined, and when clicked upon, it provides a link to this Wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany

Within this Wiki article, the following is noted, “Nazi policies labeled Jews, Romani people, Slavs (Poles, Serbs etc.) and persons of color as inferior non-Aryan subhumans in a racial hierarchy that placed the Herrenvolk (‘master race’) of the Volksgemeinschaft (‘people’s community’) at the top. Jews were at the bottom of the hierarchy, considered inhuman and thus unworthy of life.”

In reality, my only specific focus on Jewish people had to do with my attempt at identifying the men in the picture, and my assumption that they were probably Jewish. With this understanding, I incorporating my guess into my reply, right along with with the MUCH MORE IMPORTANT point (with citation supporting it) about minority groups being the true target of Nazi Germany. Sure, I could be wrong about identifying the men as Jewish, because I can’t read concentration camp badges too well, especially in a black and white photo – but, knowing Jewish people made up half of the 12 million victims of the Third Reich fueled my guess. In the end, identification of the men in the picture was merely a MINOR DETAIL in the overall scheme and theme of my reply, and that is very evident in my words. Please re-read my points, and you’ll easily verify this to be true.

Genaire: Again everything you’re mentioning still less to the meme’s divide and conquer point. Whether he divided the people against the Jews at the beginning our in the middle sends irrelevant and literally from what you’re saying is he divided up the entire country not just the Jews.

Katherine:  Genaire, it makes a difference in that being racist and creating this genocide wasn’t on purpose. They didn’t turn a blind eye as the post says. And the Nazis didn’t encourage splitting people up until AFTER he got into power. It’s not comparable to today, when we know his agenda and people still voted for him. And the majority of his voters are scared white people, educated or not, rich or not.

Genaire: So they killed all those people by accident? Yet you still mention it didn’t happen until after he got into power. Does it matter at what point the division took place? The point being a division had to take place for that many people to be murdered in mass. The majority of Trump supporters aren’t racist. You don’t have to be racist to not want to see policies like nafta ship all your jobs away.

Genaire: 90 percent of the trucking industry I would say are republicans. I have met very few racist truck drivers in my eight years on the road. I have however met truck drivers tired of being taxed out of their middle class status and having their paychecks further finished by the over regulation.

Genaire: And I generally just fail to see how anything you said diminishes the validity of the meme.

Genaire: Until he directly comes out and says he’s a racist we really don’t know his motivations. hue says some questionable things as had Hilary with that super predator shit and bringing us to heel.

Katherine: You’re doomed to repeat history if u don’t take the time to understand motives and circumstances. Most of Trump voters may not be necessarily outwardly racist, but the fact that those were the vast majority of his constituents speaks volumes. What I’m saying is that the meme is not historically accurate nor does it represent exactly what’s going on now. There are similar parallels, but not comparable.

Genaire: It historically does take a divided people in order for that level of criminality to take place. The Europeans would have never enslaved a United Africa it took the Africans themselves to help with the enslavement of other Africans.

Genaire: What you mentioned about motivations are the reason the Democratic party lost this election in the first place. People are motivated by their wallets they’re tired of job stealing legislation like NAFTA and TPP (pushed by the democrats).