The following correspondence originally took place upon the Facebook wall of my friend, Jordan K…
Jordan K.: The Toll of the Anti-Vaccination Movement, in One Devastating Graphic:
This guy is suggesting you shouldn’t have the right to decide if your kids are vaccinated or not!
“The lesson of all this is that vaccination is not an individual choice to be made by a parent for his or her own offspring. It’s a public health issue, because the diseases contracted by unvaccinated children are a threat to the community.”
This guy, or any of you for that matter, tries to force a needle in my child that I don’t agree with and you’re gonna see something far worse than a threat to the community.
Rayn: When the State medically rapes you, it’s for the “greater good”! 😉
Luis V.: Nobody forces you, if you want your kid in day care or school it is necessary. What is your beef with vacinations?
Rayn: “Necessity is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt
Luis V.: LoL ok.
Jordan K.: “The lesson here is that vaccination is not an individual choice to be made by a parent…” my beef is with the article suggesting that I shouldn’t have a choice. Currently any child can attend school without being vaccinated by claiming religious beliefs. In 2014, religious beliefs will grant your child freedom from vaccinations but your personal choices won’t.
Luis V.: Why would you put your child in harms way by not vaccinating them? That’s up there with those people that refuse medical help for their children on the grounds of religion. I don’t understand the objective of denying your child vaccines?
Jordan K.: Then why are dozens of vaccines optional?
Jordan K.: Putting my child in harm’s way would be pumping him full of mercury for a virus when the death rate for said virus is no higher than the common cold. This is my informed and well researched stance, and I would appreciate it if other people gave me the respect that my education has earned and allow me to decide what is and isn’t harmful for my own child.
Rayn: Individual Sovereignty, The Non-Aggression Principle, and Voluntaryism, for the win! Without Informed consent, even so-called “medical procedures” merely represent illegitimate acts of aggression against the bodily integrity of the Individual.
Luis V.: Well my mom is an RN and my wife works with kids. It is not manditory until you go to school or day care. My wife has a cousin whos sister in law was into that holistic shit and she refused to vaccinate her kid. Kid came down with whooping caugh and it almost killed him. All because she was afraid of a fucken vaccine. Then to top it off, my ladies cousin had a new born that had to be put on heavy antibiotics to prevent him from coming down with the same shit.
Jordan K.: Then you know it’s not mandatory for religious children.
Luis V.: Sorry bro but you are not a doctor, nurse, or practice medicine so I would not take your advice on this for my child. I respect your opinion but I beleive you are wrong.
Jordan K.: OK and I don’t agree with you, your wife, or your mom. But I am another human being who wants to be able to decide for himself what is and isn’t safe for his own offspring. What is your beef with that?
Luis V.: That fact that you are not a practicing Dr, do not work in the medical field, and highly doubt that your research in on the same level as the medical institutions you are discrediting. I don’t have beef with it until your unvaccinated child gets mine sick. Once you have a kid you can do as you wish with him/her.
Jordan K.: I seriously don’t get why you have it in for me… everything I post you argue against me as if I had just insulted your very core philosophy. The only problem I ever had was the author of this article suggesting that I shouldn’t have a choice. If my child can’t go to your daycare then so that’s fine with me, I won’t be using day care anyway! My child will also be home schooled so don’t worry about my child infecting your child at school either… None of this was ever even a part of my beef … I have beef with the author saying that I shouldn’t have a choice at all…..
Luis V.: Bro we are debating, I am not mad at you or even upset. I see my rebutal agitates you though. I will stop.
Jordan K.: What medical institutions have I discredited?
Jordan K.: You are just making outrageous claims and as everybody can see I never discredited any medical institution – all I ever said was i disagree with the author saying I shouldn’t have a choice. I repeated that fact multiple times as well.
Luis V.: You think he was just stating his position on his own opinion. Looks to me like he has tons of evidence that is supported by the medical community. You didn’t even comment on my real life story about what happens when you decide to not vaccinate your child. I can list tons of diseases that used to kill millions of people world wide, now those diseases are history because of vacinations. My point is why would you purposley refuse to vacinate your child at the possible expense of his or her well being? I imagine you are referring to Thimerosal which is in vaccines. It has been reduced and eliminated in most of the vaccines for children. “Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930’s. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.”
Jordan K.: You never bothered to even consider that I believe in certain vaccinations. I will be vaccinating my child with certain vaccinations, just not all of them, and I would like to reserve the right to be able to have some say in which ones I don’t want. Specifically, ones containing mercury and are currently ALREADY OPTIONAL. Again, the only thing I have beef with is the author suggesting I shouldn’t have a choice. You are arguing against yourself because you are creating my beliefs for me. You are putting words in my mouth. For the ten millionth god damn time, the only thing I disagree with is the fucking quote from the author saying I shouldn’t have a choice.
Carrie K.: He’s not listening (reading), Jordan. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE VACCINE’s!!! It’s about having your CHOICE removed. Pretty simple.
Luis V.: LOL, I guess bro. I didn’t bother because you didn’t mention that you wanted some vaccines. Like I said, it is your right until your kid wants to go to school, if he is not, then what is the problem? His statement is true, if you have a kid that is not vaccinated, he can be a threat the community as a host for various diseases. That is where the choice of an individual should not trump the common well being of the community in which they reside. I’ll leave it at that. I won’t argue with you anymore lol.
Jordan K.: So just to be clear, you are against religious beliefs exempting vaccinations. You support forcing vaccinations on children whose families’ religious beliefs don’t allow it, or banning them from public school.
Jordan K.: I didn’t bother assuming you weren’t for that, because you didn’t mention that you weren’t for it. 🙂 see how that works? You put words in my mouth, I put words in yours. I should have never had to say I was in support of vaccinations. All I said was I wanted a choice and that was a problem to you. You assumed I was not going to give my child a single vaccination and you treated me as such, all because I said I wanted a choice.
Jordan K.: You also claimed I was discrediting medical institutions and that my research was invalid. You know nothing of my research or of my ability to conduct it. I am a graduated scientist and I will not have my ability to think for myself challenged.
Luis V.: Like I stated in my comment above. If my kid is going to be in a class with your child, yes I would want your child to be vaccinated. Asking for a choice in the matter would suggest that you would like to refuse the vaccines. I like science more than religion as I am sure you do as well. The medical reports are there bro, the autisim scare is what got this whole thing going.
Jordan K.: When did I say I wanted my child in school with your child unvaccinated?
Jordan K.: I, in fact, said I would put my child in home school.
Jordan K.: What about the children with families with religious beliefs, do they get to go to school with your child?
Jordan K.: You could throw all the medical reports you want at me, and I will still desire the ability to make my own decisions as to whether or not my child should be forced to take an immunization or not. If my child can’t attend public school because of my decision, then so be it, I still want to be able to make that decision. That’s what you are incapable of understanding, I’m not fucking arguing against immunization I’m arguing against the removal of my choice. You should be directing your attention towards religion, who are currently using it to force their unvaccinated children into public schools. Instead you are arguing me, somebody who has already agreed to keep my child far away from yours if my lack of vaccinations upset you. My logic is sound, any parent or human being wants to reserve that choice… You don’t have a problem with my argument you have a problem with me.
Luis V.: You can think for yourself all you want, when did I say that you shouldn’t? You are not in the medical field so while you do have a good education, it is not in medicine, plain and simple, with all due respect. You stated that you don’t want your child to be pumped full of mercury/thimerosal and that was the reason you wanted the option to refuse certain vaccines. Why would you want the choice if you didn’t want to act on it. You mentioned that you wanted your kid home schooled later in the posts. Again, no I don’t want a kid that could have dangerous diseases in the same class as my kid. Kids get sick as fuck when they are around other kids, they cough, sneeze, wipe saliva, mucus off themselves and then play with other kids. If they were unvaccinated it would be twice as bad.
Jordan K.: I said the vaccinations I wanted are ALREADY FUCKING OPTIONAL so stop arguing nothing please… this is fucking pointless. Somebody could be on your side and you wouldn’t even fucking know it jesus god damn christ are you seriuously this incapable of reading a fucking word I seay
Luis V.: I enjoy debates, I have no beef with you bro. Like I said, you put up these posts and don’t want me to comment, no worries.
Jordan K.: No I don’t want you to comment any more ever again. You dont ‘read anything I say and even if you do you are incapable of understanding it and you continue to put words in my mouth.
Luis V.: WTF are you talking about BRO! I read every fucken word.
Jordan K.: I deserve to have the choice whether or not you vaccinate my child and I will keep my child far away from yours. Live with that.
Luis V.: YOU DONT FUCKEN HAVE KIDS!!!!!YOU LIVE FAR FROM ME, WTF are you talking about?
Jordan K.: All I said was I have a problem with the author saying I shouldn’t have a choice. Everything further you put words in my mouth. This is over.
Sean H.: My cousin didn’t have any of her kids vaccinated and public schools told her they needed to be and wouldn’t let them in and she stood by her decision to avoid them, the school still let them go home
Brian M.: ive never been vaccinated, NOOOOOOOB